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16 November 2009 @ 12:09 am
The Waters of Mars  
OMG my flist is entirely covered in Doctor Who and Yuletide! :) For the record my Yuletide assignment is very exciting. Yay! I think it would be impossible to write the actual request I was matched with, which involves characters that I find dull, and I'm specifically forbidden to write the slash pairing I would want to write. But it doesn't matter! Because one of the other requests was a pairing that I should have thought about before - they're such a perfectly obvious, perfectly suited couple! So, apparently I'm writing historical RPS again this year... :)

And Doctor Who? Wow. So very good. Roll on Christmas...

I expect what I liked was very much what other people liked - particularly the Doctor going completely fuck-nuts at the end. I love David Tennant when he goes completely insane, he does it so well. I loved the reference to Pompeii, because, of course, this was the opposite kind of insanity to what the Doctor was like there - and of course he doesn't have a Companion at the moment, which we all know never helps.

I also thought Lindsay Duncan was stupendously good, she really sold it for me, because, TBH, I didn't care about the other characters, you don't get the cahnce to meet them for long enough. But she was a captain I would have followed into hell, and I cared about her. Brilliant.

I watched WofM with a mate who thought she was going to shoot the Doctor at the end, and I knew it was going to be suicide as soon as she pulled the gun, because that's the kind of captain she is.

Obviously the squee at the Master was great, as was Mrs Master, Donna and Wilf, although I knew about them all, so it wasn't as great as it could have been. Possibly there was more squee at blond Master than anything... So can't wait for how the Doctor is going to resolve himself, although I can see he'd be out to punish himself now, and as we know, hubris never ends well in the Whoniverse.
prochytesprochytes on November 18th, 2009 07:39 pm (UTC)
In RTD-World, isn't the Doctor (and those he saved) now meant to be being pestered by big bat-like things, that eat everything anomalous, in order of age?

Not really sure that's a problem, myself. The situation in Father's Day was not really the same as here: there was the additional burden on the spatiotemporal fabric of two other versions of Nine and Rose being there already, which in itself contravened the First Law of Time. And that bit of canon is as old as the hills (The Three Doctors, I think), even if The Doctor has repeatedly got away with trampling on it in desperate circumstances (as indeed in The Three Doctors) .

Also, Ten may have "initially" encountered River Song (Erin Sung was the guy who built Data in Star Trek: TNG, I think) some time between Journey's End and Planet of the Dead, or between Planet of the Dead and The Waters of Mars. It is clear from the old canon that we do not see everything he does, as some bits really do not work otherwise (as in the reprogramming of Xoanon in The Face of Evil).

Malkmr_malk on November 18th, 2009 09:38 pm (UTC)
Well, it's not a problem in the sense that RTD is in the habit of declaring absolutes (or having the Doctor do so) and then breaking/ignoring/disproving them, so why should now be any different (in fairness, he is hardly alone in the Sci-fi world in doing this, although he is especially blatant). I think you are making up rationales to fit circumstances though. Yes, there was the additional issue of there being two Doctors and two Roses there at the same time, but the fundamental issue was that Rose changed time. An established death was prevented, the future was changed. I see no fundamental difference here. Consider also that a change in a time-line creates, de facto, a parallel* universe, access to which is also "impossible" in the New Whoniverse - we know this, the Doctor told us so when he and Rose were visiting one [see "breaking/ignoring/disproving" above]!

Erin Sung/River Song. OK, that will teach me to look things up when I'm not sure. I'm quite surprised I was as close as I was actually! And yes, that is a fair point, and one that I may just have to put up with, but having drawn our attention to the significance of the relationship, it seems like very poor etiquette not to show us the beginning of it in Ms Song's timeline! P'raps Moff would have done so had DT not called time, she was introduced in one of his stories after all, but that is out of his control. Unless she turns up at Christmas.

* Not really parallel, more "divergent" really, but who am I to split hairs about habitual sci-fi semantics? I might as well argue that "the relationship between "telekinetic" and "pyrokinetic" makes no sense, and that the word should be "telepyrotic" for all the good it would do!
prochytesprochytes on November 18th, 2009 10:46 pm (UTC)
I think you are making up rationales to fit circumstances though.

Well, I do not agree, obviously, but I am happy to concede that that is a matter of taste. Old!Who was insistent that crossing time-lines was a Bad Idea. (Usually when it was actually happening, of course. As you note, RTD is not alone in this. I tend to be fairly indulgent to the descriptions of things as "impossible" which subsequently happen, though; Ten (and Nine, to a lesser extent) is grandiloquent, and he is not the only person who uses "impossible" as short-hand for "untried"/"catastrophically ill-advised"/"I can't think of a way to do it if I concentrate for less than five minutes on it".) There must be some sort of proximity limit to the problem, though, or the four Jack Harknesses in England at one point in WWII would have exploded the Universe all by themselves. I still do not think that it is unreasonable for it to be the case that meddling with that with which one should not meddle can produce different (bad) effects for different instances of meddling, or that the Thingummybobs targeted the saving of Rose's dad with particular vigour because the situation was already teetering on the brink of paradox.

Malkmr_malk on November 18th, 2009 10:58 pm (UTC)
I think that when it comes down to it, it depends on how willing one is in a particular circumstance, to suspend disbelief. Indulgence, as you say. I suppose that RTD has switched on his Ineffable Bullshit Field to write himself out of tricky situations too many times for me to give him the benefit of that doubt as often as I might give others. The fact is, I didn't like the big, bat-like thingies; didn't like them at all. They were nice and menacing, and the episode was well executed, but I thought the concept was bollocks. But as they had introduced them as a conceit, I can't help feeling that they should not just ignore them.

I'll go along with your explanation as a valid rationale, but I think you are being very generous!
prochytesprochytes on November 18th, 2009 11:07 pm (UTC)
I think that when it comes down to it, it depends on how willing one is in a particular circumstance, to suspend disbelief.

Very true. And I am probably being over-generous; I often am. If I am honest with myself, I suspect that I just enjoy the challenge which plot-holes present.
prochytesprochytes on November 18th, 2009 10:56 pm (UTC)
it seems like very poor etiquette not to show us the beginning of it in Ms Song's timeline!

I think that this might have been part of the point: that there are some moments of splendour in the lives of the Doctor and those around him which we never get to see. Hence the teasing play with the closed diary at the end.

I could easily be wrong, of course. Especially if she does show up at Christmas.
prochytesprochytes on November 18th, 2009 11:44 pm (UTC)
Another Corrigendum
four Jack Harknesses in England at one point in WWII

[That should actually be "two in Cardiff; one in London; one (as far as I know) unaccounted for, but almost certainly on Earth". Somewhat embarrassing geographical inadvertence on my part, since I do usually know that Wales is not in England.]
Valderys: Captain Jack - historicalvalderys on November 18th, 2009 11:53 pm (UTC)
Re: Another Corrigendum
One from the Doctor Dances, one from the Game Station living through time until the Doctor arrives, one buried under Cardiff - who's the fourth?
prochytes: Clever Toshprochytes on November 19th, 2009 07:26 am (UTC)
Re: Another Corrigendum
The one who visits Cardiff in WWII very briefly with Toshiko in "Captain Jack Harkness". The period when there are four is actually quite short: only the few hours or so for which the action of that episode lasts.