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11 July 2009 @ 01:32 am
Torchwood - day 5  
Fuck you, RTD.

I was right - you did murder your own show - how the hell are you going to bring it back from there? You just can't. If it even was Torchwood. It's not the show I love - it's not even the overly-angsty show of season 1. It's like in horror movies when a beloved person is taken over and starts murdering people. The face is the same, but the mind behind it...

Where was the hope? Where was humanity's nobility? What was the fucking point?

ETA: Ok, I'm beginning the distancing. It's like any traumatic event, I've got to remember that tragedy doesn't take away all that a person was before. It's like with Merlin fandom - the tragedy we *know* is coming gives a poignency to the happy fluffy show we're watching now. I'll just have to reverse that with Torchwood. *nods firmly*
Kerryblazekerryblaze on July 11th, 2009 12:54 am (UTC)
It just went too damn dark! I don't mind dark, but when you take a character there, where do you go??? How can Jack get over that and go back to being the Jack that we love??

Valderys: Ianto - can't rain all the time?valderys on July 11th, 2009 09:19 am (UTC)
He can't. And that's something that I can't forgive RTD for - it's like he's thrown out the baby with the bathwater for nothing more than... actually, I don't know. I don't even know what he wanted to achieve.
ionaonieionaonie on July 11th, 2009 09:40 am (UTC)
I thought that was a brilliantly written drama but it was in no way Torchwood. It was almost like RTD had this great idea, couldn't get it made and so turned it into Torchwood or something. Because that? That was no Torchwood.

There were elements I loved:- Frobisher's arc, meeting Ianto's family to name but two.

But there was so much more that I really didn't like. And you know, the moment I realised I liked Gwen, I knew there was something wrong.

It feels more like they've destroyed Torchwood. I can't see anyway they can bring it back from there.
Valderys: Ianto - can't rain all the time?valderys on July 14th, 2009 09:18 am (UTC)
Sorry, hon. I should have replied before, but it's been a bit traumatic :) And I completely agree - RTDs said as much, you know. That they were offered this 'event tv' and he's had this idea for a while, and he thought he'd roll it out. So it was never a Torchwood idea to begin with. And RTD doesn't really know what Torchwood's about, IMO, since he hasn't written for it since episode one. He doesn't know that it's angst, but it's also uplifting, and it's cracky and it's full of love, as well as trauma. COE is not really Torchwood - they've been shoe-horned in. I wish RTD had never touched it. God, bring back Chris Chibnall.

And I loved Frobisher - but why didn't he fight back? Why didn't he take his family and run? They would have been alive then. Or at least died fighting. Better than the solution RTD made him come to. I hated that.

Ianto's family were marvellous - Mica is very intriguing. And PC Andy was fantastic too - so there were elements I loved. But. It's not enough. It's really not enough.
prochytes: Clever Toshprochytes on July 11th, 2009 09:43 am (UTC)
Not to be perverse... but I really liked it. It was dark as hell, but, for my money, left no doubt as to the possibility for redemption. As in the best Who, it was the behaviour of the minor characters that showed humanity is not a lost cause: PC Andy wading in beside the boys fron the Estates; Ms. Johnson realizing that she had a higher loyalty than the government; Lois putting it on the line for people she had only just met. The politicians were all shits, and I think that that was too glib and easy - I have (just) enough faith in government to think that *someone* in the Cabinet Office would have said "f*&k this, I'm going public". But there was enough good obvious among the people at large to think that there is still a point to us.

I think your point that "tragedy doesn't take away all that a person was before" is a very wise one. I also think that the Whoniverse is best viewed (to put it crudely) as a triptych (Torchwood - Doctor Who - SJA) which *between* them reveal all the possibilities of a universe of wonders and horrors. SJA (mostly) shows it at its best; Torchwood (sometimes) at its worst; and Doctor Who itself stands in the middle ground. But they are all complex enough to hint at other possibilities; there is light in Torchwood, just as there is darkness in the SJA. At the risk of being pretentious (moi?) there is something almost Shakespearian about a continuity which can hold so many perspectives at the same time.
(Deleted comment)
Hilaryelenopa on July 11th, 2009 04:48 pm (UTC)
It's true about the last five minutes.

Having Jack walking out the door and leaving it there would have been much stronger. Or even Gwen surveying the wreckage of Roald Dahl Plas would have been good to end on.

What had they been doing for six months?
the camelion Poet: murdered by lunaticsaltogetherisi on July 11th, 2009 10:57 am (UTC)
I was right - you did murder your own show - how the hell are you going to bring it back from there?

I didn't even consider the idea they might bring it back. They just steadily took apart every element of it. I like what they did with Jack and a couple of other things. But honestly, I feel quite relieved at the idea the won't make any more. Then it won't be messed around anymore.
emmzzi on July 12th, 2009 11:16 am (UTC)
Merlin in September.. so only 12 weeks to loveliness... it will be ok...
Valderys: Ianto - can't rain all the time?valderys on July 12th, 2009 11:39 am (UTC)
True - I keep thinking I should throw myself into a lovely fluffy fandom, but I'm too down. I got drunk and had a bitchfest about it last night, so that helped some. It's only a tv show, I know, but. I haven't felt this bad since B7. Only it's worse, because B7's ending was in keeping with its series. I just feel that RTD has betrayed Torchwood utterly. He's destroyed everything about it, and then pissed on the grave. While laughing about it, according to those who've seen the dvd extras.

I'll cheer up, I'm sure, but I'm not sure I'll ever exactly have a sense of humour about it. Here's hoping.
emmzzi on July 12th, 2009 11:44 am (UTC)
I guess if his next career step is 'move on from Who' he needs to sever ties. He's certainly burned the bridge so there's no going back. Rough on the fen though, I agree.

I'm sticking to Lexx today. Never had an emotional attachment to that as it is too daft.
Valderys: Cube - Worth - half deadvalderys on July 12th, 2009 12:17 pm (UTC)
Ooh, don't get me started! :) Bloody RTD and his ego - why does he need to burn his bridges? Other people leave a show they've started and let others play in the sandbox! Look at Paul Abbott and Shameless, for example? No, it's only RTD who has to do that, because he thinks he's *so* fucking important, the bastard.

It wasn't even really his show! He wrote one episode for it, before this mini-series! He didn't care about it, or give a damn. He just came in and laughed, and killed it. He didn't need to.

I doubt I'll watch anything he writes again, after new Who - I won't trust him enough to get emotionally involved any more.
emmzzi on July 12th, 2009 12:37 pm (UTC)
Well his next priject is the fabulpus baker boys - about a Welsh factory closing or some such. Or at least dealing with recession. I don't think it sounds like my cup of tea so am sure a boycott wont be a great loss.

olinima on July 12th, 2009 08:06 pm (UTC)
hey, random meetings person here. Likewise feeling completely betrayed and furious with RTD. That was so much worse than any of those possibilities we considered that evening after viewing Day One - if only we'd known to walk away then!

And if he did it just as a springboard or something to point to in order to break into Hollywood, or because he was leaving and didn't want anyone else playing with his toys, it just becomes so much worse.

Anyway, just wanted to say, I hope you might still continue writing Jack/Ianto. I know the lure of Merlin's ears is hard to resist (not that you should resist it, we need that too!) but Torchwood needs writers like you, writers who can put this right somehow, who can undo all the crap that RTD has left us with and make it work better than he ever could.

and also, though I probably don't really know you well enough so apologies for the slight creepiness but...*hugs* feel better soon. I suggest a visit to Ianto's fake wake (cheered me up no end!)

Valderys: Ianto - can't rain all the time?valderys on July 14th, 2009 09:09 am (UTC)
I love Merlin's ears!! Ahem. Thank you very much, random person! I haven't, as you can see, been very coherant about all this, and I doubt I can put all my feelings and reactions into words, properly. Which is a shame, because that's what I do, that's what my ljs for, at least sometimes, but I really can't, not at the mo. I know it will hurt if I try and organise what I feel so I haven't. I'm getting to the point, now, five days later, of being able to cope when I think about it, and the stone in my belly is beginning to shift.

It's ridiculous. I know it is. It's fictional. But it doesn't matter - in my head I inhabit that universe just as much as I do this one. When you write in it, you can't help it, I think. So I may well write more Torchwood, but it won't be for a while. I have to withdraw a little first, armour myself, and then come back. Sorry.

But I won't say never.
Chii: Torchwood. Jack/Iantoausare on July 14th, 2009 12:38 pm (UTC)
Random comment is random! (Came here through Merlin RPS fic)

Haven't started watching s3 because of rl stuff and the spoilers I've read (could NOT avoid them at all. How sad) are making me apprehensive about watching it. Didn't they say if the ratings were good there will be a series 4? But I wonder how can they stay true to the show when things/people are taken out and/or changed. And I wonder if I will even watch it if they are really going ahead with s4.

Also? Was just thinking. Would the outcome be the same if they were given the usual 13-ep slot instead of being handed only the 5-ep slot?